Guildleader Chores - My mythic underwear feels a bit uncomfortable

Personally, I think people are now starting to enjoy our forays into mythic raids. It is a big change from 2 months ago when we had to drag people kicking and screaming to mythic. I'm not sure what changed - was it the success of raiding, or the settling in and getting used to everyone?

However, I constantly look at Onineko's point of view of raiding and think how I would be feeling in their position.

There are two conflicting things right now are:
  1. My own guildies being left out when they would like to (and are capable of) raiding
  2. An obligation to Onineko because we did start this mythic thing together and it seems unfair to have them sit out after they helped get it off the ground
Their tank has to DPS. The numbers they can bring are reduced. As far as I can tell, no officers are attending - though Peggy has Rank 2 status in Oni (which in Frostwolves is an officer rank) so perhaps he is one. If I put myself in that perspective, I would be not healing, I'd be DPSing, and it would be ugly. I'd look like a lousy player and probably feel like one too. Though, I would enjoy the raiding, and it would be a different challenge for me trying to better myself (or face the unhappy possibility that I wouldn't be allowed to raid because I'm such a carry).

We now field 14 Frostwolves regularly, with 5-6 Onineko players. This week they brought a mage guildie who they said was quite good, but she was a bit undergeared for mythic compared to the rest of us. I don't mind who comes, but one of their other players was not responding to tells, and the raid was filling quickly. I can't wait for people, it's first come first served. Unless you tell me you are going to be late, then I will not hold a place for you. And that happened to our own guildies too!

Bish was late, and I didn't even know if he was going to be on or not. Raid was full and I had to tell him he couldn't come, even though we could have used the extra healer for council. Actually, we probably NEEDED him for council, but I make no exceptions and Bish did say he was tired, after a long 13 hour day. After playing with him for 10 years, I know that if he's tired now, he will be a pumpkin at 10pm. I told him to go and sleep.

However, there were late people on the Onineko side also. One of them was rather disgruntled at being left out and told me that they were unhappy about that when I whispered him with a solution -  perhaps he could discuss with the mage who came and swap with them for their spot since he was raiding mythic previously and she wasn't (and I didn't think she'd mind), but he said he didn't want to join us for raids anymore. I accepted that matter-of-factly. It did make me worry though, if their disgruntledness would affect the others who were coming along.

I like that with my own guildies I can enforce some sort of attendance responsibility (and it works vice versa because they will wake me up if I've fallen asleep before raid time). I message them on Facebook, I call them on their phones, I dig them up on their alts on battlenet. And I can do that because they are my own guild. It also means they all know the consequences of their own actions. AFK more than 2 minutes and we drop you from raid. Turn up late to raid without warning then we assume you're not coming and replace you accordingly. But the long arm of Navi does not extend to other guilds.

I have done my best to make a raid work with what I have. It may seem mercenary of me to ask the remaining Barthilas people to come, but I like them, and they are welcome. I'm not trying to push them away, but I am trying to preserve my own guild so I have to preference my own people and raiders at the moment - well, at least the reliable ones! So far, Nez, Sonu, Peggy, Angry and Ang are constants that always come, so I always leave room for those 5 because they are super reliable. Angry missed one raid because he was late, playing some other game and maybe lost track of time and raid got filled, but since that time he has been ready well before raid time. Peggy is so eager that he hammers Xyn with invite spam and promotes as soon as the clock hits 845pm. You can't say that they're not ready to go. I treat them like surrogate guildies - I think of it a bit like school vacation care. These guys are here on holidays and I gotta keep them entertained, safe, happy and out of trouble until their parents come to take them home.

You know, I always feel a bit sad when someone is unhappy, and I tried to put myself in his place. If I was supposed to raid and I was late and missed out on a spot would I be upset and say I would not raid again? Personally, I would just make the effort to turn up earlier and be ready the next time. But that's just me. I can't imagine any of my guildies having a hissy fit for being left out for being late, because they'd know the onus was on them. Perhaps it was because that person had missed out a few raids now. Maybe they were like Moo, looking for an excuse to stop playing, with mythic being the only tether holding them tentatively to the game.

Right now our guild is doing its best to keep the guild busy and active. And it is. The socials have really boosted the guild activity. Social raids are going (even though it's Mythic difficulty but it's at a level where we are still overgearing it but still have some challenge to make it rather satisfying when we conquer stuff - more on that in another post) and everyone is having fun. I should be focussing on that. My main priority is my guild, my guild's morale and the guild environment. It feels like a better place now than it was in the 2 weeks after the announcement of the possible release date of Legion. If I focus on that, the positive, then it helps wash away the doubts and uncertainties that niggle in the corners of my mind. And I know that my optimism will get me through everything crappy that gets thrown my way.


  1. I don't know what your rules are, but we have one that states we expect people to be online and ready for an invite BEFORE raid start time. I suppose if I was organised I'd make it 10-15 minutes before - give it a set time - however, I'm often scrabbling to get the computer in time myself, so I can't very well set targets for others that I might not quite make :p

    As we're running flex, it's not quite such a problem - as long as we can get the group going, if someone is late then we can usually squeeze them in. However only just recently we've started seeing exceptions to that - primarily if we only have a certain number of healers available and we've already got a melee-heavy team (which occasionally seems to happen).

    Our rules are .. anyone wanting to go, and definitely ABLE to go (from start to finish), signs up on the calendar as such. Anyone wanting to go but not sure if they're able, sign as tentative.

    We have a "first come first served" policy, although taking into account roles required and ability depending on the boss.

    We (I) very much discourage turning up late, or not turning up - we usually have a private chat about it later, and it will often result in a general post on the website/facebook reminding raiders to turn up on time.

    I also make a point of stating that, if people are late, they run the risk of someone else taking their place, and of not being picked as soon for groups if there is a set requirement.

    Basically, I lay it on thick - if someone signs up to attend, we are relying on them to turn up on time. If they do not, they run the risk of either the raid being completely cancelled (because we don't have enough and we don't know if anyone else is going to suddenly turn up, and I don't want people hanging around just on the offchance) or simply not getting invited.

    I do think sometimes people treat a raid as a single player thing - the raid will start when they turn up and press the button, at which point all the computer generated players will suddenly turn up for them.

    You can't beat yourself up about that one angry person. It is their fault not yours. You're probably right about them just looking for a reason not to play. I've come across people before who log in, say hello, and then immediately ask if there is something "going on" that they can join in with - a raid, a dungeon, etc. If we say "not at the moment, but if you want to organise something ..." they just disappear again. Pretty sure they assume we're sitting waiting constantly for them to come online, just so we can organise some entertainment for them. That's not you .. that's them.

    As for the arrangement with the other guild - how does it work? We used to have an arrangement with another guild where we took turns organising the raids. One week we would do it, field as many as possible in our guild and then top up from theirs, and the other week it would reverse. It did of course mean that some weeks weren't as successful as others and progression was slower - but it's worth considering depending on your aims.

    1. I thought it funny your comment about people treating a raid as a single player thing - yes we definitely get that. It's like the whole world starts when they arrive!

      I'm not really beating myself up about it - I just feel like I should acknowledge the small mental conflict I had over the issue. It's like talking it out with myself helps me reaffirm my position on the matter.

      Our arrangement was initially 10 and 10, and they had 2 tanks and we had 2. One of their tanks could only make Sunday/Monday, the other tank could make every day. Both of my tanks could make both days. They all wanted to tank. However, DPS of one of my tanks was pretty lousy so it was decided he would tank always, and the other tank could DPS though it wasn't his preferred role. Anyway, it meant that our raids were on different days on different weeks which led to a lot of confusion and lacklustre interest on our side. It changed when the other guild started to have waning interest so we took over the reins and made it a consistent day and our tanks started tanking full time - because our raid leader is one of the tanks and him switching roles all the time made it harder for him to lead it, especially calling things out. I do admit I like it as it is now, because it's consistent and makes it easier for everyone to know what we're doing.


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