Guildleader chores - Weakness vs strength

I hate to wash my dirty linen in public but I am just feeling irritated that people feel like they can advantage of me being nice but underneath it all still have a contemptuous attitude.

A month or so ago, one person (I'll call them exhibit A) left on rather bad terms - the raid had a number of mistakes, and this player gquit after the raid, after saying goodbye to one of his two friends in the guild. Then that person put on their battlenet broadcast "I don't have to play with f***ing retards anymore".  

I was already unimpressed with this person because they loved to point fingers and blame others. And this person was not a particularly stellar player, in fact, they would make just as many (if not more) mistakes than others and tons of AFKs, and unreliable to raid.  Why did I take them to raid?  Well, we always give people the best opportunity to improve and encourage.  And all you can hope for is improvement.

And then after I put up with all their crap, they think they are better than me.  That they can happily proclaim to the whole world that they think that we are a bunch of f***ing retards. Lovely. That's what I get for being kind and patient. Kyjenn took great pleasure in kicking all of his alts out of the guild - anyone who thinks it's ok to bite the hand that feeds them, well they can just go back to the pound. I don't mind being crappy towards me but I get very defensive towards members of my guild.

The other day there was a disagreement about the casual/alt run.  Two members were invited on their alt during the mass invite, and when inspected were noted to be a little bit under the ilvl we set as the minimum for that raid - and was told that unfortunately they couldn't come on that toon.  One person said they would work on their ilvl and switched to another better geared alt, the other one (that I'll call exhibit B) argued and said that ilvl was a poor way of judging someone and that they would do more damage than many others of higher ilvl.  However, rules are rules and there are reasons why they exist - if one person thinks they are above the rules, then everyone will think they are above the rules.  The officers comply with the ilvl rules, so why shouldn't everyone else?  A disagreement ensued, some heated words with swear words were said by the unhappy person, which unfortunately included the person saying that they had carried us for months and we couldn't even take them to a normal raid (bad words edited out).  Finally in anger the disgruntled person said in guild that "You guys have some serious muppets in this guild, true story".


It is one thing to have a disagreement. We respect your opinion, but it doesn't mean we agree with it, however there is no need to insult the rest of the guild. If they had left it with being upset at the officer probably nothing would have occurred, however, if someone had such a contemptuous view of our guild and its members it would probably not be comfortable for others because those feelings would surface one day and a poor guildie would be made to feel as if they were worthless by said person. There are many players in our guild who are not great raiders and who have personality quirks but at heart they are nice people and kindness is what we value, not your raiding ability. However, clearly both of these players thought that kindness was a weakness and player ability was a strength and for a lot of raiding guilds that is a strength, but not for Frostwolves.

The person was removed from guild and the sad thing was that their partner also left (which I think most people would do if their other half was kicked from a guild) which was a shame - both were good players, and the partner who felt they had to leave was fun and kind and never said mean things about people in public guild spaces.

When the partner told me they were leaving, they mentioned that I had written on my blog that I was expecting her to leave soon and now it felt like it was time for her to leave.  I wished her well, and I said I was sad to see her go, and I felt bad that she may have taken my post to feel she was not welcome, and that she was welcome to return at any time.  She didn't say more, but other members of the guild sent her messages when she left letter her know she was missed.  I was glad they had stayed up until now, because she and her partner had been a pleasure to play with.  They will be missed, but the guild moves on - the fond memories I had with both of them playing are all immortalised in my blog anyway, so they won't be forgotten.

But it is interesting to see our guild's values in practice. Whenever someone joins the guild, I tell them exactly that - that we are not a raiding guild, that we value fun and friendship over raiding ability and that we raid to have fun, and expect those raiders to have a similar capability. People say it's all fine, but when they see it in practice they want us to kick the bad people out of raids (bad meaning poor DPS or healing) so that we can progress better.  So they really didn't understand what our guild mentality was about.  Besides, that isn't what we do - we try to encourage and train and help the people who want to succeed and sometimes they do heaps better and it's great, but sometimes they don't and they have the insight themselves to see that and step down from heroic raiding to do more casual fun raiding. I don't view casual raiding as something to be ashamed about, and because I hold that belief, then hopefully the people who had to step down don't feel like they are some sort of failure.

One of the officers mentioned that when they he first came to the guild, he was used to a more aggressive verbal raiding environment.  There were people calling out others, if you were making dumb mistakes then those were pointed out mercilessly and there would be more than a few swear words and berating.  When he first started raiding with us, he thought "What is going on, where's the swearing and yelling? This raid isn't going to work..." and yet, it did.  And now, he has adopted the Frostwolf way and is probably one of the biggest advocates of what I try to achieve for our guild.

Yesterday I mentioned the drama to one of the guildies, a guildie who has had issues with the past about being frustrated with raid progress and having others not to their standard.  That particular guildie adopted some coping mechanisms (recommended by me)  - which included being on a chat program at the same time with another person so they could destress to them and not take it out on the whole raid. And since then their stress and outbursts or angry turns have been reduced a lot, and it's been great.  As I explained the series of events to them, they said that even though not everyone is a great raider, everybody in the guild is a great person and they would happily meet them in real life. And that, to me was exactly what I want from everyone in the guild.  I don't mind if that sort of thing isn't for you - after all, one size does not fit all - but for everyone who wants to play the game the way we play it, who wants to be part of a family and accept that we are all different and not be judgemental or look down upon others because of the way we play - then right here is hopefully where you'll find what just that.

Last week, Exhibit A got his only friend in guild to ask if he could return as a social.  Said that he wanted a home. Why did he want to return? Did he really think that he could insult us and return? Forgiveness is one thing, but when he didn't apologise, what is there to forgive? He was volatile, rude and unapologetic - I can't imagine that he would return and be any different.  So the answer was no. If he thought we were so weak, why would he return?

And that is our strength as a guild.  Those ties of respect and believing and knowing the capabilities and the best that we can expect of each player, and making the place a comfortable place to play. Maybe Exhibit A finally saw the light, but he had no friends in the guild except for one. Even if I wanted to invite Exhibit A back to see if he could improve, he had made too many enemies in the guild, and I can't see why Exhibit A would want to be in such an environment.

I do cherish each of our members, and I am always a little despondent after we have to forcibly remove someone or they leave, because I wonder what I could have done to make it better for them - but most of the time there is nothing I can do.


  1. /opens a bottle of port
    /pours two drinks
    /slides one over

    No sense in drinking alone.

  2. This was a good read for me. I recently had my first bit of big drama to deal with. This is exactly how I want my casual raids to go and we had some upset between two people over a gear issue. Resolved to my satisfaction, hopefully to the others and everyone is clear that any issues they have with other raiders should be brought to me and I'll deal with them.
    I also have a similar issue with the heroic raid as your one guildie seems to have. I just stopped raiding with them and tried subbing in when they needed a healer, but even that is leaving me upset when I hear people say "I take this talent cause I can't dodge the mechanic" even though they've been told many times another is better for the rest of the raid as a whole. I want to remember I like these people when I am not raiding with them.
    I have complained to friends during the raid, similar to how you suggested. But it just makes me dwell and become more frustrated. For me, the solution seems to be don't do anything with heroic progression raiding with that group and just pug it. If I get mad in a pug and leave, I don't feel bad.
    And I have had some amazing luck falling into a regular pug group run by the same small core people, which probably really helped.
    Anyways, thank you for this post. I found it helpful to remember drama is everywhere and people can be nice and raid.

    1. It sounds frustrating and I am glad you have a solution of sorts. And glad your casual raid worked out to your satisfaction. I hate drama.


Post a Comment

I hope these comments work! Not sure why people can't comment lately, it makes me sad :(