He wanted to talk about Personal loot, which is how we distribute loot on Sunday casual raiders run. It didn't seem to be a very good way of gearing people up.
We then launched into a discussion about how and why we do it that way. You would think that it would be easy just to do it need and greed rolls, right? Here are the salient points from that discussion.
- What if somebody has lucky rolls and wins 5 items and other people win none? That doesn't seem particularly fair. So if you tell them that each person can get two items, how does that work, do people not roll on items because they're waiting for the chance to roll on another item?
- We had some ideas for this - if we set the number of won items to two, so that if a person wins multiple items because they were lucky, they can give up one of the other items and keep the two best ones they won. We can ask for the loot to go the next winner on that item they were giving up. However, it is very time consuming to do that, and slows down a raid. When the raid is only 2 hours long, you want to maximise the time you spend raiding and less time worrying about loot.
- We had specified earlier that loot priority goes to the casual raiders who attend that raid. I thought this sounded fair, but what if an item drops that a main raider could really use? Is it fair that they shouldn't be able to take it if it's an upgrade for them or something they've been waiting for but didn't drop in heroic raid? Especially if they are "helping" the casual raid?
- You would think that mains > alts would be how the need rolls should work. What about if the raid had no tank or healer, and a main had to swap to that toon to make the raid run. Does that mean if an item drops, they shouldn't roll on it? How will the be able to tank effectively for the Sunday raid if they don't get to take loot?
- And how would we set priority? Casual Mains > required alts > offspec/alts?
- If people came along to help, but aren't allowed to get loot ahead of others, why would they continue to turn up to help? It could mean that people would stop turning up to "help" (because in reality, people only "help" if they get something themselves)
- If members from the casual raid are allowed to come to the heroic raid on our days and use their EPGP to get loot ahead of main raiders, should that be allowed? Perhaps the same rules should apply to members from Sunday raid subbing into the main raid. What if those Sunday players were required to help fill a raid for a role - does this also mean they can't loot? It's similar to one of the points above, but in the reverse aspect.
Sars asked why we don't put it to the raid and have a vote. I said that I didn't want to put it to a vote because people will tend to vote for what suits themselves best, not what minimises the drama in the group and what is best and FAIR for everyone. That's why I don't let the group decide. However, if something is blazingly obviously wrong and everyone speaks up about it, then of course we will look at it and try to form a workable solution.
I still think that personal loot is the best way to avoid all these problems. However, after the discussion we also did agree that although personal loot may be better in the first few weeks of a raid, because more loot will go out to start, perhaps we can relook at it after 3 weeks and start gearing people up. I hate loot drama. It gives me the big poos! So far it's been ok, with only that hiccup previously when I didn't have it on personal loot (but at that time it also wasn't explained very clearly to everyone how loot was going to be done so there was great confusion). But I think now with a workable plan, we may be able to work out Sunday's raid better, so that everyone will go in with a clear understanding of how we are going to work out loot priorities for that casual raid when heroic raiders are mixed in.