Guildleader chores - Is it time for a break from raiding?

Aza told me he wanted a break from raiding, and I know that a few people would like a break.  Sev is already on a break, and HK told me he was hoping for a break, Last night when I asked people what they wanted to do 5 people said they were happy to extend, but Morz said if we don't get it this week then call it quits after that and have a break.

We had a good attempt last Thursday, with a 4% wipe on the last Paragon.  If we can get there again we can do it I think.  It would probably be really good for raiding morale too, I think.

I don't want to force anyone to raid, but I don't want to stop raiding.  I am happy to just have a break if that's what they want, and let those guildies who still want to raid go PuG our raiding elsewhere.  There must be some teams trying to make mythic groups come 6.0 who would need some decent players.

Aza was getting his Garrosh kill done, and Luxy also said she would get hers done elsewhere as well, since we weren't going to do it.  I thought about whether I would want to do that.  I think I also felt a little bummed because at the end of this expansion we had not downed the end boss, unlike WotLK and Cataclysm.  Is the content harder? Are we not as good players this time around? I actually feel like the fights are harder this time around compared to previous expansions or is that just a decline in my skill?

I think perhaps what is bothering me is that this is the first end of expansion where I am the GM.  Under my leadership the guild was unable to down the last boss of an expansion - is this the legacy I will be leaving behind?

Also, I don't want to raid without my guildies.  I want to be with them when we kill something - and is going with other friends in other guilds going to look like an abandonment of my own guild?  I think that inside it wouldn't feel right. It wouldn't be so bad on a flex or something but I think that it looks like I don't have faith in my own guild (even though we aren't killing it anyway since we're on a break.. but it's the principle!).  I personally don't have any issues with my guildies going out to get their kills, but as GM I don't think I should be.  I guess it wouldn't be so bad if we raided together with another guild, but I can imagine those with friends outside the guild would not want to do that - why would they want to raid with a bunch of strangers if you could go with your friends?  I think that a kill would feel rather hollow to me without the presence of my officers, friends and guild raiders.  The shared excitement of a kill that we worked towards is its own reward.

Years ago, many people wrote about how great if felt to kill Deathwing, at the end of Cataclysm.  I yearn for that feeling with killing heroic Garrosh.  And you know what's really embarrassing?  I feel like I'm having a first world whinge.  I shouldn't be complaining, really.  There are many people out there who haven't killed heroic Garrosh.  I don't know if the number of people killing an end boss at the end of this expansion is higher or lower than previously, and maybe that would give me a reference.  But really, that doesn't matter. I just wanted to do it.

So, Brahski is going to sub in for Aza next week,  Drauka is back so if everyone else turns up, we will have the full complement again.  So, one week to get Paragons down.  Or there will be some big decisions to be made.


  1. Not sure how accurate this is Navi :

    I am sorry this is where we are at, I have been shaking my poms poms like crazy in the hopes of you guys getting them down. 4% is a very close heartbreak though, so maybe next week will be the decider.

    I would much rather do the kill with guildies than others since all the work has been put in and yes, friends..but sometimes..the achievement is the prestige.




    1. You know what's interesting is that more people have killed Paragons over Blackfuse. Which means we should be getting Paragons... but we're just NOT. But, as I said it could be a bit of wow fatigue in there and if we have a group where everyone is keen, we might get a bit further. And it is getting tiring just doing the same boss over and over but not getting anywhere. Though it's not entirely true, we are getting somewhere.

  2. It could be worse, you could be this player right here who hasn't even downed Garry in LFR ;)

    This is why alts are great! At the end of Cata when Concur finally accepted that it was time for a break, a friend of mine Alliance side brought my still in greens mage along for my Saviour title. Was it a satisfying kill? No, I was out DPSed by the tanks, for crying out loud! But I was still pretty excited to have experienced it (And seeing how that guild could CARRY someone through heroic Deathwing made me realise a LOT about my own guild at the time. I suppose it was the catalyst for my resignation as GM in some ways)

    Erm, anyhow. Compromise perhaps? Cut down raiding to once a fortnight or something? That way people are getting a break, but those like you still get to play with guildies?

    Good luck with your decision :)

    1. I know I'm being complainy - it seems very churlish of me whinging about heroic Garrosh! I shall think further about compromises and solutions after I speak to all the raiders.

  3. On break, but always happy to lend a hand if needed Nav ;-)

    1. Oh I have used asked for that hand MANY times Sevvie .. :P

  4. Remember, there are not that many people even killing normal garrosh either. I'd say be very happy you have gotten as far as you did, there is nothing wrong with that, even more so when a huge amount of the population never even got to where you are. I recall reading very recently that only 7% of the max level players even stepped into heroic to kill a boss. So think about your accomplishments based on that. Pretty damn impressive if you ask me.

    I fear breaks however, as a raid leader. We took a one week break a few weeks after killing garrosh for the first time and doing a couple of gearing up runs before we would go to heroics and lost nearly half the main raid team. Not kidding. Two people pugged because "if we are not going to raid I am going to find someone else that wants to" and then left to join the guild they pugged with and two others took that week to decide to quit the game. It took us months to get back to where we were. Sure, we could still clear normal, but there was no way we were stepping into heroics losing 4 of our regulars. We are 6th on our realm, could have been 1st and most definitely would have been our standard 3rd or 4th if not for that . Breaks scare me. They destroy guilds.

    1. I know I should be happy to get as far as I did - I KNOW I shouldn't have complained about that when so many people will not kill heroic Garrosh. It's like if you ran a half marathon fun run last year and got a time of 2 hours, and then the following year you got 2 hours 15mins. I can't run to save my life so I'd be happy to finish a half marathon in 4 hours, so really that guy who finished the maraton in 2:15 should be happy he did it in that time when so many others can't make that time... but you see what I mean, right? I am really only benchmarking myself, so that's why I feel a little bit disappointed.

      And breaks are scary. Your story is particularly worrying. Though I do have some guildies/raiders who decided to ditch and bail and raided a whole tier elsewhere only to come crawling back when their other raid team didn't make it due to infighting or splintering off. Fortunately my guild was strong enough to not fall apart when that happened, but I won't say I was pleased about them crawling back. But I am reluctant for a break, and I hope that we will have enough people out there looking for heroic rads that we can keep something going in the meantime.

    2. I understand, I am in the same play. As a guild we have not downed garrosh on heroic even if a couple of us have in pugs. So I am in the same place as you. I would love to get it as a guild (and only have 2 weeks left to do it so it is not happening) so I can understand completely where you are coming from.

      Those people came crawling back after getting back up roles in the guild they left for. I told them no thank you. I'll take the ones back that quit if they come back to the game, but I do not want any of that "we are not raiding for one week, I quit" drama so I am not inviting them back, even if we could have used them.

      I think a break now might be less painful than the one I suffered some 11 months ago.

  5. Maybe all you need is a defined goal. Instead of just seeing how far you can get, you could set a date beyond which there will be a break of X weeks - until next patch, until the end of a month, until the end of school holidays, etc. If people want to keep raiding during that time they are free to PUG or organise their own raids, with the understanding that once the break is over, they are expected to prioritise guild runs again. I dunno, it might end up breaking the (raiding part of the) guild, like Grumpy said.

    I have no trouble believing that raid fatigue affects performance. The problem is how to handle it.

    Btw I don't think you should excuse yourself from PUGs just because you are the GM. I would only see a problem if you did it while scolding other guildies for doing it. Your point about it being (almost) meaningless without your friends is a reason I can fully support, though.

    1. We are only casual raiders - I have no problems with people taking breaks, but I can't just please the people wanting to have breaks when I have people wanting to raid. Trying to find a suitable mix is the challenge I think, and I suspect that PuGs maybe the short term solution I need to fill for fun. We could even just go back and do our farm bosses to get some morale back.

      I pug Flex all the time to hang out with friends, and that doesn't affect our actual raids. I wouldn't want to be locked out of normal or heroic because I've been pugging in case someone in guild wants to do stuff. Besides, the last bit you said is the main reason, I think that I wouldn't want to buy a kill anyway.


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