25 man Baleroc frustration

10 man Baleroc is so easy now we've figured it out... WHY is 25 man so hard??

We had another day of 25 mans yesterday (Thursday) but unfortunately the whole time was spent wiping on Baleroc.

We initially were doing it with 8 healers, because we had so many healers in the raid anyway.  Our best attempt we hit enrage timer with 15 million health left.  OK... so too many healers, not enough DPS.  So we switched one healer to dps.

After that, every attempt was terrible.  Tanks died within 1 minute, and we would be rezzing the tanks at least 2 times each fight, but never reaching enrage timer.  Crystal tanks were dying, it was just frustrating and I was going to tear my hair out.  I even had good healers, with Belinia, Shnaptim, Yuda, Beauti, Me, Biship and Ea healing.  You'd think that would be ok.

One of the issues perhaps is to do with too many disc priests.  Yuda actually brought it to my attention.  There was a possibility that one of the priests may have thrown a shield on the tank, but NOT having the Vital Flame buff, which means that not only do they have the shield debuff but the shield may have been a crappy shield which wouldn't do much against a 200K hit.

I really do think that we need to have crystal tank healers.  Swaps tend to leave tanks or crystal tanks dying and having a healer purely for them seems in my opinion to be the best idea.  We seem to have a bad time with crystal tanks dying... when you'd think they would be fine with 2-3 healers on them.

Other ideas that have been thrown at me include only swapping when there is a crystal swap because swapping when someone is on high crystal stacks means that person will likely die.  Sometimes hard to coordinate, because if you switch at that time, you may still have 8 seconds left on Vital Flame which means you not only missed doing some nice big heals on tank, you are not gaining any stacks.  However, if you already have high stacks then it doesn't matter if you gain any more stacks really.

I guess I shouldn't TOTALLY blame the healers, if the DPS didn't stuff up their rotations then it might have been executed more cleanly.  But, I suppose if the DPS didn't DIE then we wouldn't have that problem.... oh and of course healers getting crystal debuffs as well is bad!

So I think the best idea would be to only bring 2 disc priests, have 2 paladins and 2 crystal tank healers.  So maybe a holy priest/resto shaman/resto druid on crystals so we don't have any more dramas.  If I put my best healers on it then maybe we can do it.  I guess we won't be able to try until next week.

Anyway, so we broke up into 10s and one group one shotted it, ours got it in two.  Didn't help that our pally couldn't talk on vent very loud because his housemates were sleeping.  So we couldn't hear the swaps.

I couldn't sleep because I was thinking about this all night.  I finally hit the sack at 2.30am.  I just hope that next week we can have another crack at it and see how it goes.  6 healers.  Guess I'd better work on my dps spec.


  1. I think it's ok to start healing crystal tanks even with vital flame on. Would only really gain a good amount of sparks when the torment buff goes past 9 stacks which is about 8 seconds.

    - Ampharos

  2. @Ampharos - I just hope we get it right next week! I have to admit I hate wasting my Flame buff when I have it... but you're right should just stick to what we know we should be doing, not pretty numbers!

  3. I got a strat for next time! I was reviewing world of logs for 25 man and saw that many of the grps were poping heroism or time warp from when the crystals first spawn. I also noticed sometimes their shadow priests died and got revived. The disc priests were doing like 50 and some up to 70% of the heals. And their hps was consistently high when they start healing the tanks and don't drop at all. This leads me to think that they are gaining stacks fast with heroism and also using Shadowpriests to soak up all 25 stacks with dispersion +/- pain suppression (allows us to gain stacks fast by healing at high stacks). I suspect they have a healer get stacks so high that they don't need to go back to crystals and stay on tanks for the rest of the fight. For classes less adept at gaining stacks, they can stay on crystals full time and not swop at all. So I propose we have one healer each dedicated to each crystal. A disc priest/holy Pali x2 combo swapping as usual and an extra super healer who stacks until 150 stacks b4 they start healing tanks full time. Pop heroism, on 1st crystal spawn. One shadow priest to take all stacks with pain suppression at 14 stacks and dispersion at 19. Rebirth if he dies. 2nd shadow priest with same thing..

    What do u think?

  4. Oh btw.. another advantage of getting high stacks early is that when healing the tanks you can use mana efficient heals for quite some time. When we have such high stacks it maybe even possible to one tank it and have an extra dps if we hit the enrage timer.


  5. I'm happy to try it Yuda. I think if Shnaptim is on then get him to do the quick stacks and make Ampharos take a whole crystal, sounds good.


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